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Show 1336: How the Antiviral Gut Tackles Pathogens from the Inside Out

Dr. Robynne Chutkan describes the importance of healthy gut microbes in helping the immune system control pathogens from the inside out.
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How the Antiviral Gut Tackles Pathogens from the Inside Out

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This week our guest is gastroenterologist Robynne Chutkan. She explains how keeping our digestive microbiota in good health can help our immune systems fight off pathogens from the inside out.

This show will air Saturday morning April 1, 2023 at 7:00 am. You can stream the live show by going to our host station, WUNC at this link. Just click on the arrow inside the green circle in the upper left corner. Too early for you? No worries. Just visit this page on Monday morning when we make the show available as streaming audio or an mp3 download. You will find this show well worth your time!

What Determines Host Health?

During the COVID-19 pandemic, we could all see big differences in who got sick and who seemed more resilient. Our immune systems are critical in determining just how susceptible we may be to infectious viruses like SARS-CoV-2. But what shapes our immune response?

What we need is an immune system that reacts just the right amount. This “Goldilocks immune system” meets both internal and external threats without becoming overly exuberant. If the immune system fails to react adequately to external threats, like germs, we come down with an infection.

Conversely, if it overreacts, we end up with allergies, sometimes very severe allergic reactions. In the case of internal threats, an overreaction leads to autoimmune conditions like Crohn’s disease. Lax response to an internal threat could allow a tumor to get out of hand.

A hefty proportion of the immune system is localized in the vicinity of the digestive tract. As it turns out, the balance of microbes inside the gut has a significant impact on how the immune cells just outside the gut behave. Keeping the microbes balanced can help the immune system control pathogens from the inside out.

Tackling Pathogens from the Inside Out:

Even before the pandemic, lots of people wanted to know how to optimize their immune systems. That desire is only stronger now. Surprisingly, we can make a lot of progress with some very simple steps.

Check the Medicine Chest:

To start with, we should all be considering the medications we take. Quite a few common medicines can disrupt the gut microbiota. Proton pump inhibitors like omeprazole (Prilosec) or esomeprazole (Nexium) are not kind to digestive microbes. Neither are pain relievers like ibuprofen or naproxen. Besides disrupting the microbes, NSAIDs like these can irritate the lining of the gastrointestinal tract. Sometimes they are necessary. When they are not, they should be avoided. We could say the same for antibiotics.

Our guest is a gastroenterologist. She understands the impact of pharmaceuticals on our digestive tracts better than most other physicians we have talked to. You will not want to miss her insights!

Feed Them Fiber:

Feeding our microbes what they need is crucial to keeping them healthy so that they can signal our immune systems properly. What microbes like is fiber, so a diet that leans heavily on plants is best. They also like variety.

According to Dr. Chutkan, one study found that people who consume foods containing at least 30 different types of plants each week have the healthiest balance of microbes. She gives an example of oatmeal (one plant) with blueberries, coconut and walnuts (three more plants), served with almond milk (one more plant) and cinnamon (another plant). That brings the total up to six types of plants in one bowl. (Adding maple syrup gives one extra!)

Other Essentials:

There are some other practices that are crucial for keeping our immune systems in tune so they can manage pathogens from the inside out. Getting enough sleep helps reboot the immune system. So does physical activity, especially when it takes you into nature. Exposure to dirt sounds counterintuitive, but it can really help your immune system hum. Moreover, being outside is often a good way to address your stress. Dr. Chutkan cited the Japanese practice of “forest bathing” as a good way of de-stressing and helping the immune system.

Healthy and Delicious:

Finally, Dr. Chutkan shares some of her favorite recipes with us. There are lots more in her wonderful book, The Antiviral Gut, with its detailed plan for improving our microbial balance and immune response.

This Week’s Guest:

Robynne Chutkan, MD, a board-certified gastroenterologist, is a faculty member at Georgetown University Hospital and is the founder of the Digestive Center for Wellness, an integrative gastroenterology practice located in Washington DC. Dr. Chutkan is the author of the digestive health books Gutbliss, The Microbiome Solution, The Bloat Cure and The Anti-Viral Gut: Tackling Pathogens from the Inside Out.

Robynne Chutkan, MD, author of The Anti-Viral Gut: Tackling Pathogens from the Inside Out

Robynne Chutkan, MD, author of The Anti-Viral Gut: Tackling Pathogens from the Inside Out

An avid squash player, runner and yogi, Dr. Chutkan is passionate about introducing more dirt, sweat and vegetables into people’s lives.


Listen to the Podcast:

The podcast of this program will be available Monday, April 3, 2023, after broadcast on April 1. You can stream the show from this site and download the podcast for free.

Download the mp3

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About the Author
Terry Graedon, PhD, is a medical anthropologist and co-host of The People’s Pharmacy radio show, co-author of The People’s Pharmacy syndicated newspaper columns and numerous books, and co-founder of The People’s Pharmacy website. Terry taught in the Duke University School of Nursing and was an adjunct assistant professor in the Department of Anthropology. She is a Fellow of the Society of Applied Anthropology. Terry is one of the country's leading authorities on the science behind folk remedies..
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