Doctor Objects to Statin Bashing

I took Zocor for ten years before I started to wake with cramps in my legs so severe I could not walk.

Switched to another statin. [unfortunately non generic an expensive] so far so good. The muscle pains are real. I went through 3 statins 11 years ago before finding I could tolerate Zocor.

Count me in as that "1" out of 400 the doctor referred to that ached when taking statins. All I know is that the pains in my legs started when I started using Zocor, and then Lipitor. And they stopped when I stopped using those drugs.

Now I am trusting in fish oil caps and red rice yeast. I don't know if they are as effective as the statins, but I don't ache now.

I am a 52 year old female with a TC of 320. Several of my family have FH and take Zocor without any problems. However after two months I experienced muscle pain and tiredness that made it difficult to continue working, so I discontinued the drug. Three years later my GP tested my cholesterol again, and although there was no change he prescribed Crestor 10 mg. I argued against this, but was persuaded that this statin was better and safer.

After only two weeks, I woke in the night with strange tingling sensations in my hands and feet. When this continued for three days I returned to my doctor who said that parasthesis was a possible side effect and to stop taking the Crestor to see if the feeling went away. That evening I went to my regular yoga class and experienced pain in my shoulder, but by the next morning I had pain in my knees and hips, aching ankles, and the pain in my neck and shoulder was so bad I dare hardly lift that arm.

One month later I still have all these symptoms. My doctor will not believe that the Crestor is to blame. I feel so frustrated, like I have aged 20 years overnight. None of my family have CVD and we are notoriously long lived, so I have decided to risk the heart attack rather than ever take another statin. But I worry that my relationship with my GP has been ruined by this experience, I don't trust his judgment and I know that my reaction will not be reported. How can these side effects be monitored if the doctors turn a blind eye?

Muscle complaints are far from rare when taking statin drugs as mentioned by a doctor.

My husband was on zocor for three years when he had muscle myopathy. He could barely walk or feed himself. During the second year is when he complained of muscle aches and pain and dismissed the idea of statins being the cause. Since then, five neighbors in our community of thirty families have tried statins and all of them have stopped taking statins altogether due to myopathy.

When a doctor refuses to believe his patient when he complains and says to stay on statins for another six weeks, it is time to change doctors... this is exactly what happened to a friend of mine.

A veteran had been on lipitor for over a year and became bedridden for three months... he believed in his doctor until he read about others with the same complaints... sometime we have to become our own doctors, especially when doctors are not paying attention to their patients.

Statin side effects ...the result of hysteria and word of mouth? Come on, now.

My daddy was in such agony (from the muscles in his legs) that he could barely walk; (this was in the mid 1990's); the muscles were getting weaker and he was doing all he could just to walk. period! He complained and complained to his family doctor. FINALLY, his doctor took Daddy off statins. THAT WAS THE ONLY thing that changed. Wasn't too long before Daddy was walking much better ..... It was NOT psychosomatic, because my dad had no idea what statins were and the info about side effects were just coming in.........)

WHEN I took statins my memory went out the window....short term memory was so bad that I would stop RIGHT in the middle of a sentence, unable to finish it and THEN could not remember what I had been saying. WHEN I finally stopped the statins, within a few days my memory started coming back. (MY husband noticed.)

Then one day I heard a scare story about stopping statins and how stupid that was. I was in a delema; what to do? so I decided to start back on them (and as a test to see....) and in a few days I was stopping mid-sentence again........ My husband asked me WHY was I on statins if it made my life so horrible? I talked to my family physician and he put me on something else:niacin. (I later found out that he, my family doctor, could not tolerate statins, either! He told me, himself.)

I would rather risk going without statins than live through the hades I was in while taking statins.

As a statistician who evaluates research, I am frustrated by this physician's sweeping statement that the vast majority of side effects attributed to statins are due to mass hysteria. There is no validity to this statement because no research has been conducted to investigate this hypothesis. Controlled experimental research in this area would be lengthy, costly, and difficult to measure, and no one would fund it.

A host of side effects due to statins are emerging as more people take such medications for a longer period of time. Part of the problem in identifying side effects is the reluctance of many physicians to recognize that symptoms may indeed be due to the medication. As a result, patient reactions are not systematically documented and researched.

Side effects listed by the pharmaceutical company that produces a medication are often incomplete due to clinical trials that are conducted on a non-representative sample of the population for a brief period of time. Patients who have ever experienced a side effect to any medication or who are taking other medications may be routinely excluded from these trials, resulting in an inadequate assessment of the potential side effects of the medication.

Statins take a bad rap for a number of very valid reasons. The first is the people whose lives are ruined when they cotract one of the myosistis diseases. Many of us who do end up in wheel chairs and those of us who are lucky enough to stabilize at something approaching normal are forced to take more poisonous meds to maintain a normal life. These meds lead to eye diseases, skin thinning, osteoporosis to mention just a few of the more minor ones.

You might also think about the indiscriminate way statins are prescribed. Very few fall in the "healthy" category. After they are prescribed, how many docs do follow up blood tests?

All of it boils down to greed. The pharmaceutical companies and the doctors. Forget the patient who pays the price of the drug and the price of the consequences.

I began taking Lipitor and soon afterwards was having trouble with my walking program. The doctor said that it was probably arthritis.

So I quit my walking. I also had muscles aches especially across my shoulders. I again mentioned it to my doctor and she did a CPK on my liver which showed an unusually high count. So I discontinued taking Lipitor and with trial and error I have been on Welchol, which is not a statin but seems to work for my cholesterol.

My shoulder pain and hip pain disappeared and I changed nothing else. This summer I had a severe case of bronchitis and I was given the antibiotic Levaquin, with horrible side effects to my muscles. I was afraid I would never walk again after only five days on the drug. I had muscle spasms and never knew minute by minute where the muscle pain would occur.

My pharmacist told me of the possible correlations between the two drugs; even though they are for different medical problems. I have asked every doctor I have seen since then and they nod their head and agree. When asking patients if they are allergic to penicillin they should also ask if they can take statins.

For several years I have taken Red Yeast Rice with CoQ10 for my slightly elevated cholesterol. It has kept it in normal range, taking it twice a day, with no side effects. No statins for me!

My wife had problems with statins. She stopped these drugs and her pains stopped. I had similar problems and also refused statins. I don't need a "head in the sand" doctor!

This would be the reason to Fire your Doctor!!!!!This Doctor!!!!!
Relatives of mine who are also Doctors have tried Lipitor as well as Crestor and had memory loss as well as muscle pain.....The Drug Reps advised them is only happen to 2%, again my Cousin did his own checking and found this is not true, far more people are being affected by these Statin type Drugs... Plus it depletes the body of CO Q 10 which can be found it our cells...
Read about this in the Peoples chemist.....Shane will set him straight.

Has anyone mentioned the memory loss issue? There is a prominent astronaut named Duane Graveline (I believe his site is SpaceDoc.net) who started taking statins and one day he thought he was a 12-year-old! My brother also experienced memory loss from a statin. The list of side effects with these drugs is horrendous. For one thing, they tend to deplete your Coenzyme Q-10 levels -- which is an important nutrient for heart health and energy.

In addition to the muscle damage issue, they can increase the likelihood of cancer. And fundamentally, cholesterol is not really the nemesis that it's been built up to be. Inflammation is what is really causing the cardiovascular problems -- and those can be prevented by avoiding processed foods (like white flour, white sugar) and taking turmeric (or a supplement like Zyflamend).

Statins are another pharmaceutical which tends to cause nutrient depletion and side effects -- which then lead to more drugs, which makes no sense at all. What ever happened to Hippocrates' "First, do no harm"? Let's stop subsidizing all the processed foods and drugs, and give nutrition its full due in preventing and treating disease!

Any doctor who believes that statins are getting a bad rap is simply not listening to his patients. I am an ophthalmologist, and never have prescribed a statin, but just in the course of taking patient histories I absolutely know that these drugs have frequent and severe side effects. I read some "alternative" medical literature as well as mainstream.

One article I read stated that when 100 patients on statins were specifically ASKED about the common side effects that are known to be attributable to statins (not limited to muscle pain and weakness) 100% of them were having symptoms that may have been statin related. If the doctor's mind is already made up that NO complaints could possibly be drug related, then he will not ever "see" any side effects.

Very few physicians will ever take the time to report a "post-approval" adverse reaction, even if they observe one. Therefore the reported rate of side effects to ANY drug is always lower than the actual occurrence. Patients should always read the package insert for any new drug they are prescribed and discuss any changes in their condition with their doctor.

Red yeast rice: I was under the impression that the FDA required all red yeast rice sold in the US to be treated such that its statin-like activity is negated; i.e., making it benign and useless. I will be delighted to learn I if am wrong: my bottle of simvistatin will go in the fireplace (not down the toilet - too many drugs in the water system already).

PEOPLE'S PHARMACY RESPONSE: THE QUESTION OF WHETHER FDA HAS REQUIRED (AND IS MONITORING) RED YEAST RICE TO BE MODIFIED SO THAT IT HAS NO STATIN-LIKE COMPONENTS IS QUITE UNCLEAR. HERE'S ONE TAKE:
http://heartdisease.about.com/od/cholesteroltriglycerides/a/red_yeast_rice.htm

This is directed to the doctor who posted here on this site, who thinks that those patients who blame their muscle problems, their memory problems, and in my case, my neuropathy of the feet and legs problem, are only "imagining" that a statin drug was the cause of their problems.

I am a retired R.N. I know how to research drugs. On a web site called Lipitor Message Board, I found that many, many people were suffering various physical symptoms after taking a statin drug, AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THEY SAID THAT NONE OF THEIR DOCTORS BELIEVED THEM!! This is scary!!!

Stanford University is conducting a study on how statin drugs can cause the above mentioned complaints. It is time the medical profession starts paying attention to their patients' legitimate complaints. I took lipitor, for a year, in 1999 and started feeling numbness in my toes, and now many years later, it has progressed up to the calf muscles in both legs.

I changed doctors and finally found a doctor who agreed with me, about statin drugs causing many problems. YES, HE AGREED WITH ME!! So Doctor, don't believe everything that the drug "reps" tell you, when they come into your office. Remember, they are working for the pharmaceutical companies, who are making millions off of these drugs, and will naturally paint a beautiful picture of statin drugs, when they come to your office.

I have worked in doctors' offices and I hear the sales talk that the drug reps hand out!! Yes, some people do not feel the bad side effects, but you MUST believe that a large majority who complain to you, KNOW what they are talking about. So how about letting those patients know that just possibly, they could be RIGHT!! You could suggest diet changes and more exercise, as an alternative to the statin.

This is from Dr. John McDougall's web-site: Most medical doctors think statins have few side effects—and that these are mild and reversible. Complaints by patients on statins are often dismissed by their doctors as unrelated to the medication, and the issue of side effects has not been well studied, therefore, the true incidence is unknown.

The most serious adverse effect of taking these medications is damage to the muscles, called rhabdomyolysis, which can occasionally result in death. An estimated 1% to 5% of people on these medications experience muscle inflammation and pain (myositis). The more potent the statins; the greater the risk of muscle damage. A recent study, with electron microscopy and biochemical approaches, examined the muscle tissues of patients on statins. They found muscle cell damage in over 70% of people on statins, even when they had no complaints of pain.3 3) Draeger A, Monastyrskaya K, Mohaupt M, Hoppeler H, Savolainen H, Allemann C, Babiychuk EB. Statin therapy induces ultrastructural damage in skeletal muscle in patients without myalgia. J Pathol. 2006 Sep;210(1):94-102.

To read the full article go to: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/may/statins.htm

Went to a talk last night about better heart health. For recovering from statin muscle pain - it was suggested that CoQ10 is very helpful. And CoQ10 should probably be taken daily if a statin is used.

Boy, am I steamed about the doctor who wrote you and said my nightly leg cramps while taking Lipitor is due to "mass public hysteria." I inherited heart disease from my dad and so far have had cardiac angioplasty and carotid artery angioplasty. I wonder whether those procedures were due to "mass public hysteria." I simply must take a statin, as my second carotid is about 50% blocked. Luckily, a doctor's column in my local paper suggested taking COQ-10 to reduce leg cramps while taking statins, and it was worked well. Probably all in my head, right? Meanwhile, my cholesterol level is well below 200, and I exercise daily.

I found this article that might be helpful:

Statin-Associated Myalgia Linked to Vitamin D Deficiency: Presented at AHA
By Lexa W. Lee

NEW ORLEANS -- November 12, 2008 -- Vitamin D deficiency appears to be prevalent among patients with hyperlipidaemia, but it occurs more frequently in patients with statin-associated myalgias, according to findings presented here at the American Heart Association (AHA) Scientific Sessions.

Myalgia occurs frequently among patients taking statins, but it is sometimes uncertain whether it is drug-related. Vitamin D deficiency is common in the general population and is sometimes associated with reversible myalgia, according to Barton Duell, MD, Oregon Health & Science University, Portland, Oregon.

Dr. Duell and colleagues conducted a study to determine whether vitamin D deficiency may contribute to symptoms of myalgia in 99 patients referred for tertiary care with a diagnosis of hyperlipidaemia.

Patients were aged 58.7 years on average (range 20-84) and 43% were men. The mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D level was 26.7 ng/mL (range 5-64).

Statin-associated myalgias were reported by 38.8% of patients. These patients had a 32% lower mean vitamin D level (20.5 vs 30.1 ng/mL, P = .0003) and were more likely to be female (68% vs 49%, P = .095).

Vitamin D levels were similar in men and women (24.3 vs 28.8 ng/mL, P = .09). Deficiency was prevalent in the group (62.6%

Patients with myalgias were more likely to have vitamin D levels

Among patients with vitamin D 30 ng/mL (P

About one-third of patients with myalgia reported fewer statin-associated myalgias after 8 to 12 weeks of unblinded treatment with high-dose ergocalciferol, but most subjects also changed to a different statin, according to the researchers.

They concluded that while vitamin D deficiency is common in patients with hyperlipidaemia, statin-associated myalgias were more commonly related to vitamin D deficiency, with a mean vitamin D level 32% lower than the mean for the entire group.

They noted that vitamin D levels below 20 ng/mL were associated with 4-fold higher rates of myalgias than levels higher than 30 ng/mL, and reduced myalgias were anecdotally related to treatment with vitamin D in some of these patients.

According to Dr. Buell, vitamin D deficiency either leads to statin-induced myalgias or may cause drug-unrelated myalgias in a subset of patients taking statins. This matter requires additional studies, he said.

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852571020057CCF6852574FF007E15F0

I have been a pharmacist for 32 years. A local physician once told me, "statins should be put in the water just like fluoride!" He was serious. Well, doc, count me as a skeptic. I have dealt with numerous patients complaining of muscle pain. The doctor who started this should realize that patients needing statins usually are on multiple medicines, some of which may alter the drug levels of statins. Also, did his 400 to 1 benefit numbers come from a drug company sponsored study? It wouldn't surprise me if it did.

Also, the memory loss problems with statins are real too. My father experienced that on Lipitor and Crestor. Also, numerous People's Pharmacy readers have written in about this. Cholesterol is a component of the myelin sheath of nerves. Perhaps screwing with cholesterol levels caused this sheath to break down causing the memory problems. All I know is that my father's memory returned after stopping the statins. My question for the doctor who complained is this...Which drug company will research the effect of statins on memory? None. It would hurt their sales.

I'd like to know if the doctor takes these medications himself. If he does how many of them has he taken? I am assuming not every single one and each of their generics. If he has never taken these medications he has no right speaking for those who do take these medications. Furthermore whether or not he takes these medications everyone is different and one size does not fit all. This is an example of a doctor who would rather protect his self pride than listen to his patients.

I took Zocor for several years and had some problems with leg weakness and pain. I was switched to Vitorin and the problems became much worst. I stopped all statin treatment. Much to my surprise, my asthma dramatically improved. I was able to discontinue daily cortizone (Advair) use. And am now taking no asthma medications on a regular basis. I still have asthma, but it is only a problem when I have an upper respiratory infection which is much less often than when I was on statins.

I looked this up online and found many references to statin improving asthma.

Has anyone else had experiences similar to mine?

My cholesterol is 295; my diet is very low fat, but I have taken thyroid medication for years which apparently raises cholesterol levels. My doctor prescribed Simvastatin. I took it for two weeks before bedtime. I began to have increasing periods of insomnia, finally ending with two nights when I went entirely without sleep.

I discontinued the medication and experienced a two week period exactly the reverse. My doctor insists I begin using the medication again. I've consulted with a number of pharmacists who tell me they are unaware of this medication causing insomnia. I have been on the medication for 4 days and am beginning to experience sleep disturbances once again.

PEOPLE'S PHARMACY RESPONSE: ACCORDING TO THE OFFICIAL PRESCRIBING INFORMATION, ABOUT 4 % OF THE PEOPLE IN CLINICAL TRIALS REPORTED INSOMNIA WITH SIMVASTATIN. NOW, THAT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THE PEOPLE ON PLACEBO WHO HAD INSOMNIA, BUT IT STILL SUGGESTS THIS MEDICINE CAUSES INSOMNIA IN SOME FOLKS. PLEASE CHECK BACK WITH YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT ANOTHER WAY TO LOWER YOUR CHOLESTEROL.

To the cardiologist who thinks statins are getting a bad rap: Let me assure you my pain from them is not in my head, and I've tried at least five different kinds. Not only that, I can't take Niacin of any kind, and I've tried all the health store remedies. The pain I get is sickeningly severe, and stops within a day and a half after I quit taking any of these remedies.

With Niacin I realized that I got exceedingly tired, and lethargic. This also was eliminated by the next day after I quit the pills. I'm 68, with a history of bad cholesterol (my dad died at 65 after his 2nd stroke). I would not, "Bite the hand that feeds me," and I certainly don't want to have heart disease/attack.

I also have reported, more than once, that taking magnesium causes me debilitating joint pain; the kind of pain where I can't get my left leg in the car without lifting it in. The U of WA doctors, gave me cortisone, because that's all they had. It helped briefly, but the pain stopped when I quit taking any supplemental magnesium.

Unexplained pain is big business in this country, and some of these things need to be seriously looked at.

I'm a 64 year old male, but several years ago when I first was put on cholesterol lowering drugs, my doctor prescribed Lipitor. Within two weeks after I started taking it, I began to experience muscle aches. It got so bad in just a few days that I thought my arms were going to fall off. I notified my doctor immediately who told me to stop taking it immediately, and put me on gemfibrozil which I take still. I have permanently lost muscle strength in my arms and maybe my legs, and I owe it all to Lipitor.

I took red yeast rice in an attempt to lower my cholesterol. It is a "natural" statin. I took the largest dose prescribed, and my cholesterol didn't budge. (My husband takes a small dose, and his cholesterol went down quickly.) I also took CoQ10 100mcg daily. I became more and more fatigued with vague overall muscle achiness.

I decided to stop taking the red yeast rice since no effect, and within a week I was moving so much more easily it was amazing. The fatigue also left. I found I no longer had to take large doses of ibuprofen for the muscle aches. So for me, the red yeast rice produced the statin side effects. My husband has no such muscle aches so continues to take his small dose. Obviously this is all very individual.

I was on 10mg simvastatin for a period of time and it controlled my cholesterol then without explanation my Doctor increased the dose to 40 mg. I have been getting terrible muscle spasm in my legs since the increase but assumed it was 'old age'. I lost the use of my left arm and was diagnosed as a frozen shoulder. Having had physio for months it has now subsided but then my arms started shaking and I had severe joint pains.

I was referred to a neurologist who diagnosed Parkinsons Disease. I suggested to my Doctor that maybe it was the statins and so he agreed I should come off them for a short period, already I am walking better, the cramp has gone and the shaking isn't as bad. Do I now let my Doctor reintroduce the statins and accept that I have Parkinsons?

I was also on simivastin for a period of three years. Over this time I had on 4 separate occasions terrible muscle pain that I went to my doctor with. The doctor on each occasion suggested it was older age and onset of arthritis.

I am aged 46. 15 months ago I was so bad with unrelenting leg and arm weakness and pain that it was finally suggested that I should come off of the statin. Over the 15 months since I have improved some but I still am very exercise intolerant and weaker than I used to be. I take co q10 and vit d but am really starting to think that I may have permanent damage. I would definitely never take a statin again.

I also think it is high time that doctors learned more about the side effects of this drug instead of being ignorant and to some extent arrogant to the detriment of their patients. I have reached a point of great anger with it and fully intend to bring this to as many peoples attention via the internet in this coming year.

When I was 33 yrs old, I took simvastatin for three days. On the third day I went jet skiing and fell off the jetski. I was so weak, I could barely keep my head above water, let alone get back onto the jet ski as I normally would. I started yelling for help, and my friends thought I was joking and laughed. When I finally got out of the water, I walked from the lake, back up the ramp, to the parking lot. During this time I had to stop twice to take a five minute rest--unusual for me.

That's when it clicked that the shaking I'd been having the last few days and the weakness that day must have come from the simvastatin. I was lucky: my pharmacy tech warned me about this possible side effect. Otherwise, I might still be taking that drug now.

It's so easy to assume that an FDA approved drug is safe. There is always a risk. We as consumers need to take responsibility for our own health and read the fine print that comes with each drug. We need to consciously monitor our own reactions to those drugs.

Took Lovastatin, on disability for 9 months now with severe pain in legs and arms. At 49, feel like 89.

I'm 54 and was prescribed Simvastatin about 3 years ago because my cholesterol was slightly high, I took it for a few weeks with no ill effects, then I forgot to take them, when I went for my next blood test they said my ch level was fine and so it shows how good the drug was working.

I was too scared to say I hadn't taken them. However to cut a long story short, I have hypermobility and find it hard to press tablets from the packets and so the local pharmacy put them together for me every week and there in the night section was the 40mg simvastatin, so I thought well I'll just take it since its there in. I had mood swings and would burs the box.

After about two weeks I started to feel unwell, shaky inside and out, my heart would be racing and I would start to take full blown panic attacks over nothing. My daughter and my granddaughter came to the door and for a second I really didn't know who they were, that's when it started, I would not know what I was doing, I started talking then couldn't finish what I was talking about because I couldn't remember.

Some of the conversations I was having with my family were nonsensical. I was down at the shops the other day and went to cross over at the crossing and I couldn't remember if I had to cross when the light was at green or at red so I just stood there had another panic attack and burst into tears. I would sleep for maybe two hours then get up and couldn't get back to sleep, when I did sleep I would sweat profusely, I was like the living dead.

I came across 'the dangers of statins' and my hair stood on end and all the other people who were going through what I was going through, I can't believe either that doctors don't listen or they would prescribe something as dangerous. I felt like my body was closing down and my brain. It got to the stage where I could not walk in a straight line, I was like a drunk staggering about, I couldn't keep my balance. I have stopped taking simvastatin 6 days ago, this is my risk because I am not going through this nightmare, I wouldn't encourage anyone to just come off any tablets without talking to your doc but I am so desperate now I thought I would give it a try.

I sleep all night now, I feel like my brain is clearing of the fog, I have more energy, although I'm still staggering about but I use a stick to help me walk. I am hoping and praying that I get better and I hope everyone else does too and finally sees the light too. Low risk medication... I don't think so. I'm 54 and walk like a 90 year old.

I got on this site because I was trying to remember when I stopped taking statins. It was when the drug companies got the "release" to advertise from the FDA.. I started taking Mevacor in 1987 when they first came out. I was changed by a "progressive" doctor who gave me a "free" sample of Lipitor which I probably took for 3-4 years. When the Lipitor ads came out with 1/4 the ad listing side effects I got to checking. I had been lifting 20 pound weights for years. My right arm was getting stronger and my left arm had no benefits for the years I was lifting and was painful.

I did some studies of my own and stopped taking statins entirely. I don't take any prescription drugs. I am 77 and I have found out that most people over 60 have some pills they are taking. I firmly believe in VitaminD3... and I cannot believe that those little tiny cheap pills could actually make me feel younger and have more energy.

Meanwhile I have had 6 doctors who insisted I needed statins... Finally, I found one last year that has read the latest findings and just doesn't take the "party line" from the salesmen. It must be 8-10 years with no statins... and no problems.

I just found Dr Graveline yesterday. When he said he was a family doctor for 25 years... and that he was TOTALLY wrong about recommending statins I felt vindicated.

I took statins for 15 years before problems started. I ran and biked very intensely during the time on the drugs. Suddenly I started having leg fatigue after all those years, no energy and a lot of pain in fingers. To the point of not being able to punch the credit/debit button on gas pumps. Had to use pencils and pens.

Got off of the lipitor and after one year began to feel better but still had a lot of fatigue. Am able to use my fingers again to punch buttons. Tried to start back a small dose of pravachol only two nights a week. Symptoms began to reappear. Just going to have to take a lot of vitamin C and take my chances.